you were a romney supporter. do you have to change your strategy now that we know we have president obama for the next four years? he's got a much different mentality. >> i'm a social liberal fiscal conservative. my party doesn't really exist. i thought if the nation got burr rid under trillions of debt, there would be nothing to talk about. we wouldn't have a social agenda. >> we're close to it. >> 16 on our way to 20. then you lose options. you go over an edge where you're only services debt. today our interest expense is like $120 billion or so. 4% on $20 is $500 billion. that overwhelms all the discretionary spending. somebody has to get serious in washington. i'm hoping obama is coming to be a great president, which has come to the center. he inherited a bad economy. there's no doubt, right? but we haven't made a lot of progress. we haven't given business a lot of confidence. we have $1 trillion -- >> antagonistic with business. >> we would call it antagonistic. a lot of listening but not a lot of hearing. i